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1911 Census FAQ and Transcription Guidelines
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jw



Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 22
Location: Aylmer, ON, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:24 am    Post subject: 1911 Census FAQ and Transcription Guidelines Reply with quote

1911 Census FAQ and Transcription Guidelines

This FAQ is divided into four parts: Beginners, Data Input and Editing, Error Correction, and System.

jw (Greg Sherk)
------------------

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Beginners

What does indexing a census record implies?

It is a partial transcription of a census record in an electronic readable format, in accordance with the rules specified below. The transcription must reflect as accurately as possible the content of the census records. No interpretation of the original content should be made in the transcription process and no extra information added in the transcription fields. These also apply when submitting a correction. Transcribers should not use the line note to transcribe the census fields that are not in the data entry form.

What is the use of indexing a census?

The transcription is done to create an index to allow researchers to easily look up the information in the original record. It is not a transcription of the full record.

How do I register as a volunteer to index the censuses or proof-read the transcription?

The registration link “register” is near the top of each census home page. Once registered, please read the complete transcription guidelines.

Please note that the registration to the census indexes is independent from the registration to the message board; these are two independent registrations.

How do I volunteer for a given District?

From the 1911 National Summary page, select the desired province, then select the desired district. Check the District Summary Page for a blank sub-district (one with no lines transcribed). Select a blank sub-district and start transcribing a page. You can also tackle any page showing "0" in the Lines column for a sub-district that has some lines already transcribed.

How do I get to the data input page?

Sign in and then click on the “transcribe” link of the selected page. This will display the census page image of the selected page and the data input form in a split screen format. The 1911 census page image will be displayed in the upper part in Adobe PDF format which requires the Adobe's freeware Acrobat reader. Note that you may choose JPG as an alternative format to display the census page image by selecting the link: “Show jpeg” located below the data entry form. The census page image could also be displayed in LizardTech MrSid graphics format, which requires LizardTech's freeware MrSid browser plug-in, if opened in another window by right clicking on the “MrSid” link on the Sub-district Summary page, prior to clicking on the “transcribe” link.

How do I get credit for my transcription work?

You must be sign on and have transcribed at least one line to be able to claim successfully a census page. Click the "Claim Page" link below the input form. Remember where you were because upon return from storing your credit, the line number on the input form will be reset to one without any indication of the last line transcribed. The only way to determine the last line transcribed is to display the transcribed lines via the link: “Show data”, located below the input form. Your stored credit allows you to be the only person able to transcribe and edit that page as well as being identified as the transcriber.
Please note that by claiming a page is a transcriber is effectively committing to return to their work and make corrections as required. If the transcriber enjoys transcribing, but doesn't wish the long-term responsibility for correcting their work, then the page should not be claimed.

I missed a line doing a page, how do I correct this mistake?

Providing that you skipped a line entirely you can just add the missing line, they do not have to be added in order.
If you entered subsequent lines with the wrong line number then the line numbers need to be edited - in this case you have to start with the highest line number and work down as you can't change the line number to a line number that already exists.

Page unlocking Policy.

During the transcription process it is possible that some pages may have been claimed by a volunteer and then abandoned prior to be completed.

Pages that have not been completed by a transcriber within one month of being claimed may be unlocked for completion by other volunteers once the transcription of a district is 99% or more complete. In order to be fair to all transcribers, after the district has reached the 99% completion status, an unlock notice must first be posted on the message board as a reminder for every individual to complete their pages within 21 days of the posting.

This unlock notice may be posted by any volunteer as an individual message, which must list the incomplete pages and a link to the applicable sub-district summary page. The name of the transcriber should be listed in the subject line. Example of Unlock Notice.

After this period, volunteers may post an unlock request as a reply to the Unlock Request / Summary that specific pages be unlocked for completion. Upon completion, the transcriber completing the page may claim it in order to accept the responsibility for making corrections in future as may be required.

Pages only requiring blank lines will be completed by site admin or his assistants and the original transcriber will retain credit for those pages.

As of November 2006, any pages not completed within six months of the date of claim may be unlocked. An unlock notice will be posted in accordance with the procedure described above.

Data Input and Editing

Please read the complete transcription guidelines.

Do I capitalise the surname?

Transcription is done as it appears in the original census form including capitalisation. Surnames should not be entered completely in upper case letters. Where output is desired with the surname in upper case it is trivial for the computer to produce all upper case from a mixed case value but not the other way around.

What do I do with unreadable entries?

If you cannot make out what is written in a census field, a single question mark “?” can be used to indicate an unreadable value. If a value is partially legible then the part that is legible should be entered and the part that is not should be represented with a question mark. If you feel you can make a reasonable guess at the characters then enter your guess instead of a question mark. Here are examples, where an “*” represents an unreadable character in the original census:
Original ………………… Transcription
***** …………………… ? …………………… (An illegible entry is transcribed as a single question mark)
Patt** …………………… Patt?……………… (One or a series of illegible letters is transcribed as one question mark)
P*tt*n ……… ………… P?tt?n
*atten …………………… ?atten
[Something vaguely resembling Patten] Patten(?) ……… (Transcribe the name followed by a question mark in parentheses)

Note: an exception to this rule is the household number which must be a unique number without question marks for each household. See What does column two, household number, mean? for further details.

How do I transcribe a name that contains abbreviated given names and initials?

Sometimes the enumerator abbreviated given names, e.g. Geo. for George. Such abbreviations should be transcribed as they appear in the original. Some enumerators put periods after initials, others did not, and some were inconsistent. The preferred transcription is to record exactly what was written in the original but this is not critical.

How do I transcribe a name that contains a title?

In cases where the enumerator has included a title, it should be transcribed at the end of the givens name field with a comma separating the given name from the title. For example, "Wood Senator Josiah" should be transcribed surname "Wood" and givens "Josiah, Senator".

How are groups with no surname handled?

There are several cases where a group of people did not use surnames including first nation peoples and religious orders. In these cases we have elected to use an identifying keyword for the missing surname and use the single name as a given name. Some example artificial surnames are: Sister (for nuns), Inuit, Blackfoot (Tribe’s name). This scheme has the added benefit that it makes it significantly easier to search the index.

How do I transcribe a field with a drop down menu?

The drop down menu must be in the same language as the page being transcribed in order to allow the display of the transcription in the language selected by the user and to eliminate translation errors. This is particularly true for some French relationships that have two meanings, such as “Belle-mère” and will be display in English as "Step-mother / Mother-in-law [Belle-mère]"; while for an English enumerated page the relationship “Mother-in-law” would display in French “Belle-mère [Mother-in-law] ”. A relationship transcribed using the "Other" option will only be displayed as transcribed regardless of the viewer’s selected language.

To change the language of the drop down menu, click on the desired language on the command line: "Original page enumerated in: English French" located below the transcription or proofing input form.

How do I transcribe a relationship?

If the relationship written is listed in the drop down menu, select the entry even if the enumerator used a different spelling or an abbreviated format. If the relationship is not one listed in the drop down menu, then select “Other”, and used the input field “Other:” below it to transcribe that relationship as written by the enumerator.

What does "L.S." mean in marital status?

L.S. means Legally Separated. It is transcribed using "L" from the drop down menu.

What is the use of the "?" and of the "*"?

The "?" is to indicate that the field is illegible while the "*" is for legible field to indicate that value entered in the field by the enumerator is non-standard such as "Unknown" in the month of birth field. Where an "*" is used, include a line note indicating the content of the field.

Please note that if the month and/or year of birth contain words rather than numbers, transcribe as "*" and include an appropriate line note. Also if the age contain words rather than numbers (except for age expressed in days or months such as 5D, 5 Days, 5/365, 5 M, 5 Months, 5/12 which are transcribed as written), transcribe as "*" and include an appropriate line note.

What do I do with errors in the original Census Form?

Where the enumerator has made a spelling error in a name or one of the other values seems to be or is in error, the transcription should be faithful to the value entered by the enumerator. Conflicts in the date of birth versus the age are particularly common and should be transcribed as they are written in the original census. For an error in the surname, the proper spelling should be provided for the first family member only listed through the surname note, which will result in these individuals being included in the search result. For an error in the given name, gender, birth date or age, an off-line birth record could be added, including its bibliographical reference.

What do I do with crossed out lines?

If a line is filled in and then crossed out, enter the values for the line and use the note link next to the line in the table below the input form to add a line note indicating the line was crossed out. If there was a note on the original form such as "dead" include that in the line note comment.

What do I do with blank lines?

If a line is left blank all values for that line (except the line number!) should be left blank and no line note added stating that the line is blank. It is preferable for blank lines to be represented as empty fields rather than apparently missing. All blanked lines in a page must be transcribed so each page has a minimum of 50 lines. This is used as an indication that the transcription of a page is complete.
To add the extra blank lines, ensure that all the fields are empty except for the line number and repeatedly press the "Enter" key as many times as necessary.

How is a line note used?

Line Notes are used to add a comment when a line is struck out, contains comments or other information that is not easily captured in the standard fields such as notes in the margin of the page. Line note should not be used to capture the data in the fields of the census that is not transcribed or to submit corrections to transcription errors. Line Notes are attached to a line number, not to the individual listed on that line. Please remember that if you change a line number, the note will remain attached to the line number originally affected by the note.
To delete a line note that you added in the 1911 census index, follow the same process as for adding a line note and click the delete link at the end of the note in the list of existing notes for that line.

How do I edit or delete a line?

Go to the data input page and click on “show data” command below the data input form. The transcribed lines from the page will be displayed with the “Edit” and “delete” commands at the end of each line.

What do I do with a duplicate page?

Report duplicate pages to the administrator using the “Questions and comments directed at the site admin” forum of the message boards. Be sure to completely identify both pages which you believe to be a duplicate of one another and which page should be deleted (Census year, province/territory, district, sub-district #, and page #).

What does column two, household number, mean?

The number at column two is a sequential number; in itself it has no meaning, however, it is used to identify the members of each household. If the household number has not been completed by the enumerator or it is illegible, use the next sequential number. Always be careful to ensure that all members of the same household have the same unique household number especially for household spanning pages.

How do I transcribe a duplicated household number in an enumeration district?

If two households have the same household number add 1000 to the household number for the second household in order to ensure it is unique. A line note should then be added to explain that this has been done. In the common case where the numbers have been written over it is preferable to choose the numbers that correctly group the households. Often the original numbers have been corrected but the correction is fainter or less clear than the original, it is still preferable to record the fainter but correct numbers or simply use sequential numbers where the overwriting makes the numbers in the original illegible.
Special case: Sometimes the enumerator adds at the end of a page, household members that were missed. Although the household number is out of sequence and appears to be a duplicate, it is not.

Are there any tricks to help me read a poor quality image?

Staring at the problem part of the image while slowly backing away sometimes helps. If that does not help, try enlarging the image using the view command on the Acrobat toolbar. Sometimes viewing the image at a higher magnification, or as a negative, helps. These techniques are available by downloading the image in MrSid format and then open it in an external graphics viewer such as IfranView: This will allow you to magnify and see in negative plus use limited image improvement tools. If all else fails, and you have the time and energy, try copying a small problem piece of the image into a high quality graphics program where you can use major image improvement tools.

Error Correction

How do I submit a correction for 1911 census entry transcription?

There are two possible ways to submit a correction to a transcription error:
You can either submit yourself the correction as per the applicable procedure below, or
you can describe the error including it location (province, district name, enumeration district number, page number, and line number) in a posting to this forum and a volunteer will submit the correction on your behalf.

Procedure for the submission of a transcription error correction –
First you must be Registered and Signed on. See appropriate links on the 1911 census National Summary page to register and/or Sign on.
At the Enumeration District Summary page, click on "proof" of the appropriate census page. At the end of the line with a transcription error, click on "correct" to access the correction input form. Make the correction to all the fields that do not contain what is written in the original census document prior to submit.

If the error is in the original census document, then:
For a surname spelling that has a different soundex code than the surname recorded - a surname note provides an alternate surname spelling and allows the members of this family to be identified in the result of a search done on this alternate spelling. When entering a surname note, check mark if it applies to the entire family or only to this individual. Also, please include the bibliographical reference to the source that corroborates the surname provided, and if applicable, add an associated note.

For a discrepancy in the given name, gender, and/or date of birth - an online or offline birth record link is the preferred way to annotate the correct information.

For a discrepancy in any of the other transcribed fields, except age that can be calculated from the birth date - a link to an online record is the preferred way to provide the correct information.

As a last resort, a line note could be used to provide the correct information, including a bibliographical reference to the document used to corroborate the information provided.

You can also post the required information and a volunteer will annotate the record as per the above procedure on your behalf.

How do I implement a suggested correction?

To implement a suggested correction, you must be the transcriber of the page and first be signed-on to the 1911 census. Then click on the link "my page" just below the list of provinces/territories on the 1911 national summary page; then click on the link "corrections to my pages", which will display the corrections submitted to your claimed pages. For each suggested correction, right click on "Review" and select "Open in New Window".
Implement all the corrections on that page as follows: If the correction match the census image, then click on "Edit" and amend the line to read what is written in the image and summit the correction. If the suggested correction does not match the census image then take no action.
When all the corrections on that page have been reviewed, close this window and you will be returned to the window containing the list of suggested corrections.
Repeat until all suggested corrections have been handled.

Should I submit a surname correction for every family member?

The surname correction code has been amended such that when the correction is accepted, the transcriber is p[resented with a list of transcribed household members with the surname for which a correction was submitted and with the household member to which the correction is submitted highlighted. With this list, the transcriber is presented with the option to either "Change surname for all the listed records" or "Change surname for only the highlighted record", therefore surname corrections now needs only to be submitted for the head of household unless another correction is also required to another line then it is recommended to include the surname correction so that when the corrections are applied, the sweep will delete all the implemented correction instead of keeping the one for which the surname of the transcription and of the correction does not match.

In other words when submitting a correction, it is better to include the corrections to all the fields that needs to be corrected instead of multi-corrections. When all the corrections are applied, this will allow the sweep to delete all the submitted corrections that have been implemented. The sweep routine recognises these as the ones that all the fields of the transcribed line match the ones of the submitted correction.

What is the use of "notes on my corrections"?

This is part of the communication tool between the transcriber and correction submitter. Any note on the submitted correction by the transcriber or a correction adjudicator as part of the evaluation of the submitted correction will appear in this area.

Please note that for a line that has more than one submitted correction, including yours, and one not submitted by you contains a correction note, then this note will appears in your "Notes on my corrections". Although that many may think that these should not be displayed there, they can be used to your advantage as an indication that another correction was submitted to that line. This can be used as a flag that you may want to revisit the correction to that line to verify if either you should amend or delete your correction depending on the appropriateness of the other correction.

System

Who owns the data we volunteers create?

The transcribed data is owned by AutomatedGenealogy and is Copyrighted 2005. The data usage right authorisation was given at no cost for non-commercial use.

Can I change how the input form behaves?

At the bottom of the input page there is a choice to place the new line initial cursor position at: the Line number, the household number, the surname or the given name. You may also set the default marital status value and change between French and English the drop down menus.

Why are newly transcribed entries not showing up in the results of a search done at the provincial or district level?

Only the index at the Enumeration District Summary Page level is updated as entries are transcribed, manual intervention from the site admin is required to update the index at the District Summary Page and Provincial Summary page levels.

I get an error message. What went wrong?

The main reason for an error message is a time-out. This is caused by trying to access a Web site that is either too busy to respond in a timely manner or is off-line. The Web site in question can either be automatedgenealogy.com, Library and Archives Canada, or any other site associated with the link that you clicked. The solution is to click your browser back button and try again. If after a few tries, the expected result is not obtained, then the site is most likely down. Retry in a few hours or the next day. Scheduled down times of the automatedgenealogy.com site are advertised on the What's New at AutomatedGenealogy.com forum on the Bulletin Board. It is highly suggested that this message board forum URL be placed in your “Favorites” for future use: http://static.automatedgenealogy.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=2

What to do if the census image does not appear on the screen?

The two main reasons for a census image not being displayed are:
a. The Library and Archive Canada site is temporarily off-line: in this case, verify if the required census image can be displayed directly from their site: loaded directly from the 1911 Census. If the image does not appears, it confirms that the Library and Archive Canada site is temporarily down, therefore retry at a later time; or
b. the image changed location resulting in a broken link: in the case the image appeared when accessing it through the Library and Archive Canada site. In this case report the broken link on the 1911 Census message board, stating the province, district, sub-district, and page number of the image that would not display and the name of the link used resulting in the broken link (i.e. “PDF”, “MrSid”, “JPG”, “transcribe”, “view”, “split view”, or “Show jpeg”).

What is linking?

Linking creates joined entries for a person who is identified at least twice in one or more databases. An example would be a person who is in both the 1901 and 1911 Canada Censuses. Or a person who is in a Canada Census and another Canadian Government database such as “Home Children (1869-1930)” or “Soldiers of the First World War (1914-1918)”. Here are examples of links. Here is the list of linking capabilities and associated instructions.

I have a question that is not in the FAQ, what do I do?

Consult the transcription guidelines for questions dealing with transcription; then search the Bulletin Boards to see if it was asked and answered. Otherwise, ask your question on the appropriate message board and a volunteer or the site manager will provide an answer normally within a day.

Last amended by A. Dawson, 3 July 2007, 19:30 to clarify the transcription of relationship


Last edited by jw on Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ron Awde



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1268

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good.

Last edited by Ron Awde on Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lpatten
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 2079
Location: New Brunswick

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an excellent starting point, I have already placed a link to this thread on the 1911 home page.
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jw



Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 22
Location: Aylmer, ON, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 3:37 pm    Post subject: I made a few changes and added one question Reply with quote

This has been edited into the first post in this thread.

jw (Greg Sherk)
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jmccallum



Joined: 07 Aug 2005
Posts: 31
Location: London, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a couple of questions. One of the first messages from the Administrator stated that several test/prototype sections had been posted, but it was not recommended to begin the entire transcription yet. When / how will the signed up volunteers receive notification to begin transcription?

Second, will there be an opportunity to offer proofreading and corrections before the transcriptions are posted in their final format? For instance, I have done extensive research and previous indexing in Malahide Township, Elgin County sources, and recognize several names already "test transcribed" with question marks that I can readily offer answers to.

Jim McCallum,
Chairman, Elgin County Branch, Ontario Genealogical Society
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lpatten
Site Admin


Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 2079
Location: New Brunswick

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In brief, I think the transcription interface is ready to go although not feature complete. 145,000 lines transcribed so far seem to indicate it is usable and now that basic locking is in place I would not hesitate to proceed with transcribing.

All the features of the 1901 site will be available for the 1911 eventually, and hopefully improved upon. It will take me some time to get us there.
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jw



Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 22
Location: Aylmer, ON, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:45 am    Post subject: Jim... Reply with quote

Jim, hopefully we'll meet face to face someday. I've been working on a method so that I can stand being in the light long enough to be in the Library for an entire Elgin County OGS meeting. Phototoxicity is one of the barriers I face.... The other being the tremor which makes editing & transcribing a bit of a pain.

As for the question marks in Malahide... Send the problems to me and I'll do the editing: jwwells@start.ca or through the message system on this forum. I'd say call me, but I don't want to post my home number on a public message board.

jw (Greg Sherk) Aylmer.
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B Roadhouse
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 4:48 pm    Post subject: relationship Reply with quote

There is no entry for father-in-law on the transcribing page
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Oil Can Harry



Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A decent start. I think maybe the thread should be sticky so it's always one of the first things a new member sees.

I think there should be a section for problems caused by microfilming or enumerator idiosyncrasies: family numbering restarts, pages filmed out of order (number on page doesn't match online page number), multiple enumeration districts filmed as one, single enumeration districts filmed as multiple districts, Donna L'Italien's recent post about initials for maiden names, missing or duplicated pages. Maybe something explaining the difference between a subdistrict and an enumeration district.
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nanomiter



Joined: 02 Mar 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Montreal

PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:09 am    Post subject: "What do I do with unreadable entries" idea Reply with quote

Great idea for the NOOB user. Is there a means in which to place the "What do I do with unreadable entries" information on the transcription page under the entry boxes. I am using firefox so have the user forum page in a second tab making it somewhat easier to switch between pages to find out what to enter for unreadable lines. Scrolling down on the entry page would make life easier for the beginner.
Regards
Bob
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Ron Awde



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1268

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a couple of suggestions for the last half of the transcription phase for 1911:

1. We should perhaps reinforce that transcribers SHOULD NOT be entering extensive line notes to capture all the information on the census. I've run across a couple of districts where well meaning folks have attempted this.
What a tremendous investment in something so contrary to the aims of the index. These transcribers don't realize that there is no way to suggest corrections to this type of data.

Perhaps this suggests that the principal goal of transcription being the creation of an index to allow people to look up the information in the orifinal record should be the first statement under the FAQ"S- Guidelines

2. A reminder is needed that names MUST NOT be entered in upper case. Again, I've just run across several new pages of this approach. Where do transcribers get this notion from?


3. A reminder up front that the initial transcription is only part of the responsibility; that by claiming the page, a transcriber is effectively committing to return to their work and make corrections as required. Perhaps it should be pointed out that if the transcriber enjoys transcribing, but doesn't wish the long term responsibility for correcting their work, they can leave the page 'open' and not claim it.

It might also be appropriate to indicate to volunteers that they should not claim a page unless they intend to complete it; that otherwise, the page will be unlocked for completion by another volunteer.

4. More emphasis on the need for transcribers to complete every line on the page, including blanks. Include an instruction on how this should be done by transcribers.

5. Maybe it is time to develop and explain a policy for unlocking pages as the sub-districts are complete. This question is arising more often as the work progresses.

6. It might be appropriate to revise the title of the post to FAQ's- Guidelines for transcription.

I also think that it would be much more helpful if the 1911 Home Page encouraged transcribers to refer to Frequently Asked Questions - Transcription Guidelines than the current 'Frequently Asked Questions (under construction)'. It almost goes without saying that FAQ's are likely always being updated and refined. It is apparent that there are many transcribers that have not reviewed any Guidelines for transcription or even other transcribers' work before jumping in and making up their own rules for data entry.
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Alain Dawson



Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 4508
Location: Orléans, Ontario

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron,
I amended the FAQ to address points 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6.

WRT point 5, I suggest that you formulate a draft policy for Lindsay review and approval.

WRT point 6, Lindsay is the only person that can deal with this. I have no priviledge to amend the content of the site WEb pages.
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Alain
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Ron Awde



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1268

PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alain, thanks for the update on the FAQ's. Once Lindsay is back, I'll post the other two proposed suggestions on the Admin board...Based on responses to the recent posting on unlocking, I'm thinking that a policy based on the 99% completion of the sub-district should satisfy everyone.
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Guest






PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 6:42 am    Post subject: Re: I made a few changes and added one question Reply with quote

jw wrote:
This has been edited into the first post in this thread.

jw (Greg Sherk)
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Alain Dawson



Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 4508
Location: Orléans, Ontario

PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

6 Apr 2006 addition to FAQ in Beginner section

Quote:
I missed a name doing a page, how do I correct this mistake?

Providing that you skipped a line entirely you can just add the missing line, they do not have to be added in order.
If you entered subsequent lines with the wrong line number then the line numbers need to be editted - in this case you have to start with the highest line number and work down as you can't change the line number to a line number that already exists.

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